Secret Hitler!!!

[GM Eli]

Vote: Yes

I haven't seen any reason to vote no on anybody at this point.

With this vote we have a government. No talking please.

[GM Eli]

The government has met and have enacted a...

Liberal Policy

The liberals widen the lead with the score now being 4 liberal policies passed and 2 fascist policies passed.

Talking may resume. Talon is now President. Oldfield and Doug are ineligible to be Chancellor..

[GM Pancho]

I'll win with liberal policies still being played so damn the feelings.

[GM Franchise]

Talon, any ideas about who you're looking at for Chancellor?

[GM Oldfield]

I had two blue and a red. Discarded blue so I could test Doug. Sorry been away today

[Talon]

Nominate Kirk 

[GM Pancho]

Interesting ...

Vote: Yes

Willing to swallow my feelings and let the results come.

[GM Oldfield]

Vote yes

[GM Mike Powers]

Vote yes

Wish you could explain these "feelings" Pancho.

[GM Franchise]

Vote: Yes

[GM Eli]

Vote: Yes

With this vote we have a government. No talking please.

[GM Eli]

The government has met and have enacted a...

Fascist Policy

With a third fascist policy played there was a presidential power to resolve, the special election, and that power has been completed by President Talon who has chosen OLDFIELD to be the next president.

Additionally, with a third fascist policy being played the fascists can now win if Hitler is elected Chancellor at any point from here on out.

The current score is 4 Liberal policies to 3 Fascist policies.

Oldfield is now the President (via Special Election). Talon and Kirk are ineligible to be chancellor. Should the game continue after this round of play, the presidential rotation will return to normal.

[Talon]

I received three reds, I felt Oldfield was a safe choice for the special election.

[GM Oldfield]

Ok so what's people's thoughts? I have a couple of choices but keen to hear from others as I'm worried someone could have been playing a clever long game and were just one policy from defeat

[GM Pancho]

Vote yes

Wish you could explain these "feelings" Pancho.

Well look whose back in his feels! Allow me to share my feelings.  Most of these posts are harmless alone but strung together I've gotten a bad feeling about this.

Lame. Keeping count. If there's ever a good time to lie it's on the first draw.

Not sure what's so unique about the first draw as a good time to lie as opposed to any other time [short of a power being used]. First "huh" moment.

Pancho you said you discarded a red so in essence you didn't test him the first time. You could have but didn't.

So for that reason I'll choose Talon because if what kirk said about the cards is true, then I would discard a blue to force talon to choose between blue and red.

Nominate: Talon

This move was suspicious to me - because Kirk had already made the next hand public - it's not much of a test.  It would be suicide to play anything else but Blue as a Fascist - therefor no credit for the blue being played because it was the only logical play no matter the allegiance.

And then we have the Powers/Kirk government where the trio of Oldfield, Doug and Talon vote No [not as good of a read on Talon] - which ended up passing a blue policy. 

Honestly I'm the 2nd best choice based on currently eligibility. Talon is best but he's president next.

I'll play blue as long as he hands me one. And there will be one if Oldfield is liberal and no one lied thus far. Feel like that's a stretch.

But I'll vote yes because if we do get screwed I get to pick special president round which would likely be powers at this point in the game.

Vote: Yes

And Finally, IMO Doug's worst slip - why would a liberal ever put someone else above themselves as whose best to pass a policy.  Especially someone who passed two blue policies but didn't have a logical say in the matter. I gave Talon a choice between two blues - discarding red - and his second play were known cards thanks to Kirks presidential power.  Not a smoking gun but just feelings.  Granted Talons association with Doug is more circumstantial since it's Doug pushing him and not Talon cosigning his posts.

----

That being said clearly I think I am the best choice to pass a blue liberal policy. Only way I don't is it doesn't get passed to me.  I will revert back to my feelings and shoot down a government including Douglas.

[GM Dougie]

I'm going to ignore that wall of text. Its not indicative of Pancho's alignment...he's just wrong. I will address my "slip". Pancho was clearly ignoring the fact that Talon wasn't eligible for government that round when I said that. Liberals want what's best for the liberals. I'm happy to be looked over as long as I win.

We're in the re-shuffle of cards and regardless of alignment, 3 reds was likely high. Lets again go back to the plays:

3 reds
2 blues 1 red
3 reds
2 blues 1 red
1 blue 2 reds
2 blues 1 red <- what Oldfield just said he got when I was his chancellor (which would mean a blue from the discards appeared here).
3 reds

Even if people told lies earlier, what's in the reshuffle is based on what gets discarded and that is based on the policies played. Furthermore, of the next 6 cards to be drawn, only one will be blue. Meaning choice matters here.

I should be chancellor, I am not hitler, and if we get that last blue in this draw I will play it. That's the best I got. Ya'll decide.

[GM Oldfield]

Great the two people I really wanted to hear from.

I don't understand why a nazi would focus so much on card counting and so I'm gonna stick with my gut. I feel Powers is Hitler. And I feel he's made a power grab too early.

Nominate Doug

Vote yes

[GM Dougie]

I'm obviously a yes here.

Vote: Yes

[GM Pancho]

I am fully aware I might be wrong Douglas - but at this point I have nothing else to go off of but my alignment and gut feeling.  Still there's a sense of knowledge in your post about my alignment - maybe my view is just tainted and I am fitting the facts to the results.

But I'll go down with the ship and live with the results.


Vote: No

[GM Mike Powers]

Great the two people I really wanted to hear from.

I don't understand why a nazi would focus so much on card counting and so I'm gonna stick with my gut. I feel Powers is Hitler. And I feel he's made a power grab too early.

Nominate Doug

Vote yes

...what power grab have I made? Did you mean Pancho and say my name by mistake, because otherwise I have no idea where that came from.

Not Hitler by the way.

[GM Eli]

Great the two people I really wanted to hear from.

I don't understand why a nazi would focus so much on card counting and so I'm gonna stick with my gut. I feel Powers is Hitler. And I feel he's made a power grab too early.

Nominate Doug

Vote yes

Voting for the Oldfield/Doug government is underway. The deadline will be June 13th at 7pm eastern. The current vote tally is as follows:

Yes - 2 (Oldfield, Doug)
No - 1 (Pancho)

[GM Dougie]

I know nothing about anyone's alignment.

I think Talon and Kirk are liberal. Those are my reads. In my opinion Pancho hasn't been tested. The rest could go either way. The amount of alleged 3 red draws hurts my predictive analysis.

[GM Kirk]

Explain that to me again. Why is there only 1 blue in the next 6 cards?

[GM Kirk]

We start with 6 blue and 11 red. We've "seen" 7 blue and 14 red according to Doug's list. Isn't it advantage blue, now?

[GM Franchise]

I know nothing about anyone's alignment.

I think Talon and Kirk are liberal. Those are my reads. In my opinion Pancho hasn't been tested. The rest could go either way. The amount of alleged 3 red draws hurts my predictive analysis.

How does it affect your analysis? I read your card analysis about the cards coming up which is why I'm asking.

The only thing I'm worried about is electing Hitler at this point which makes every vote a risky one at this point in the game.

That said...

Lame. Keeping count. If there's ever a good time to lie it's on the first draw.

I didn't forget this. Starting suspicion on the first draw result is a big red flag. You and Kirk did it, even though you passed a blue earlier it could be easily done to cover yourself as a liberal later on.

Vote: No

[GM Dougie]

We start with 6 blue and 11 red. We've "seen" 7 blue and 14 red according to Doug's list. Isn't it advantage blue, now?

Cards that get discarded get reshuffled to continue. So in the first 5 draws we had 5 blues and 10 reds. The 6th draw uses the last 2 and then 1 from the previous discards. Based on what was played the discards were 2 blue and 8 red. With a blue coming on the 6th draw that means the next 9 cards have 8 red and a blue. Which supports the decent probability of the 7th draw being all reds.

And that's why the next 6 cards are 1 blue and 5 red.

[GM Mike Powers]

We start with 6 blue and 11 red. We've "seen" 7 blue and 14 red according to Doug's list. Isn't it advantage blue, now?

Cards that get discarded get reshuffled to continue. So in the first 5 draws we had 5 blues and 10 reds. The 6th draw uses the last 2 and then 1 from the previous discards. Based on what was played the discards were 2 blue and 8 red. With a blue coming on the 6th draw that means the next 9 cards have 8 red and a blue. Which supports the decent probability of the 7th draw being all reds.

And that's why the next 6 cards are 1 blue and 5 red.

1- Doesn't all this depend on people being truthful about the cards?

2- Have we ever had a game where there was zero lying about the cards that were drawn?

[Talon]

Obviously we can't predict when lies were told, so you have to work off of the information that has been provided.   


Vote Yes

[GM Eli]

Obviously we can't predict when lies were told, so you have to work off of the information that has been provided. 


Vote Yes

Current Vote Tally:

Yes - 3 (Oldfield, Doug, Talon)
No - 2 (Pancho, Franchise)

[GM Pancho]

We start with 6 blue and 11 red. We've "seen" 7 blue and 14 red according to Doug's list. Isn't it advantage blue, now?

Cards that get discarded get reshuffled to continue. So in the first 5 draws we had 5 blues and 10 reds. The 6th draw uses the last 2 and then 1 from the previous discards. Based on what was played the discards were 2 blue and 8 red. With a blue coming on the 6th draw that means the next 9 cards have 8 red and a blue. Which supports the decent probability of the 7th draw being all reds.

And that's why the next 6 cards are 1 blue and 5 red.

1- Doesn't all this depend on people being truthful about the cards?

2- Have we ever had a game where there was zero lying about the cards that were drawn?

That spider sense is tingling again ... You know it is Pow Pow

[GM Mike Powers]

I guess my point isn't as obvious as I thought it was. My point is, Doug seems to be leaning hard on "this is what is in the deck" as though it is a FACT. Ignoring how, at this point in the game, lies have been told, so who knows what is really in the deck.

[GM Dougie]

Because even though the first 5 draws could have been lies, the reshuffle is purely the discards. The only possible lies that could be the case currently is if draw 6 didn't have 2 blues or draw seven didn't have 3 reds.

[GM Mike Powers]

Vote yes

[GM Eli]

Vote yes

With this vote we have a government. No talking please.

[GM Eli]

The government has met and have enacted a...

Fascist Policy

With a fourth fascist policy played there was a presidential power to resolve, the kill power, and that power has been completed by President Oldfield who has chosen POWERS to be killed.

As a result... Hitler is dead.

LIBERALS WIN!

The game really picked up toward the end. Sorry for the slow start. Congratulations to the liberal team. I thought both sides played pretty well in this one and I'll have more details about the draws, reshuffle, and all that here in a little bit.

[GM Mike Powers]

*grumbles*

[GM Pancho]

Hey I actually won!  LETS GO LIBERALS. Curious, who were the fascist?

[GM Oldfield]

Wanna play poker with powers

[GM Dougie]

Yay winning!

Yes I cannot wait too see who is who and the draws. My guesses for Fascists were Powers and Franchise. Maybe Kirk is the 3rd?

[GM Pancho]

My guess was Doug and Talon - but considering how you've answered after the game pretty sure we were liberal on liberal violence.

[GM Dougie]

Talon could be fascist. But I am liberal

[GM Franchise]

I was a Fascist. Funnily enough I did get three reds on the first draw which I thought was hilarious due to the irony of it happening with me being a fascist.

[GM Oldfield]

I thought facists were Kirk and Talon. But then when Talon picked me as president I had my doubts.

[GM Kirk]

I wasn't fascist. How did you nail Powers?

I was sure Doug was. Pancho made a compelling case, plus I always think Doug is the bad guy. My radar is always off with him.

[GM Oldfield]

I feel when powers is a racist role he comes across more eager. I felt if Doug was a facist he would have been less inclined to count the cards 

[GM Mike Powers]

I came across as eager? I thought I hung back quite a bit. Guess I'm rusty as hell.

[GM Eli]

Here's some information for your discussion purposes.

1st Policy Draw - 3 reds
2nd Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red
3rd policy Draw - 3 reds.
4th Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red.
5th Policy Draw - 1 blue, 2 red
---Reshuffle occurs here---
6th Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red
7th Policy Draw - 2 red, 1 blue - Talon elects Oldfield in special election
8th Policy Draw - 3 reds - Oldfield kills Powers

It was an interesting call on the part of the fascists to vote for the final government. At the same time I thought it was an interesting call on the part of the non-Pancho liberals to vote for the final government with the risk of Hitler getting elected. Personally, I'm not a fan of confirming the special election simply because a fascist could be setting up either clearing their partner or potentially setting up the election of Hitler for the win.

But it worked out for the libs. The moment that Oldfield said he thought Powers was hitler I had a feeling the game was going there way. Might have been a mistake on Powers part to vote yes after Oldfield said that but maybe he missed it or forgot that the next presidential power was a kill power.

Either way, sorry for the slow start to the game everyone but I thought it picked up toward the end like it usually does in Secret Hitler.

[GM Pancho]

I guess my point isn't as obvious as I thought it was. My point is, Doug seems to be leaning hard on "this is what is in the deck" as though it is a FACT. Ignoring how, at this point in the game, lies have been told, so who knows what is really in the deck.

Based on this post I went back and looked ... and we came pretty close to no lies being told.

1st Policy Draw - 3 reds - FRANCHISE DID NOT LIE
2nd Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red - PANCHO DID NO LIE
3rd policy Draw - 3 reds. - KIRK DID NOT LIE
4th Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red. - DOUG DID NOT LIE
5th Policy Draw - 1 blue, 2 red - POWERS DID NOT LIE
---Reshuffle occurs here---
6th Policy Draw - 2 blue, 1 red - OLDFIELD DID NOT LIE
7th Policy Draw - 2 red, 1 blue - Talon elects Oldfield in special election - TALON IS A FILTHY FUCKING LIAR
8th Policy Draw - 3 reds - Oldfield kills Powers - OLDFIELD DID NOT GET A CHANCE TO LIE BUT CLEARLY WOULD NOT HAVE

Curious Powers why you did not discard the blue and say they're were three reds - trying to retain your electability?

Also Talon - why choose Oldfield? 

[GM Mike Powers]

Yes, trying to set up getting elected as Hitler.

[Talon]

if I had known Oldfield had pegged Powers as Hitler, obviously I dont make him president, but I was trying to take pieces off of the board to help Powers get in and get a win.

My bad guys.