Secret Hitler HITLER ELECTED, FASCISTS WIN!

[GM Franchise]

Franchise you played a crap game in the last one and are being a gobshite this game to make up for it.

I'm voting no because Powers said himself he made a mistake with nominating Oldfield. Therefore I'd rather vote no in this government and see who Oldfield picks as his chancellor.

That doesn't me he didn't choose a liberal. You're just making excuses to vote no because you're likely a fascist and are trying to cast doubt on Powers.

Franchise you played a crap game in the last one and are being a gobshite this game to make up for it.

I'm voting no because Powers said himself he made a mistake with nominating Oldfield. Therefore I'd rather vote no in this government and see who Oldfield picks as his chancellor.

Franchise DID win the last game - but mostly because I played the crap game.

Powers says he made a mistake and didn't check.  I could get that.

But there might be an alternative reason to not want to let Oldfield be the next president.  Powers has not been part of a government that passed a blue policy

As Franchise mentioned Oldfield did pick a blue card when given the option.  So I'd rather have Oldfield as president at that point than Powers.

Vote: No

Why are you skeptical of Powers? Just curious.

[GM Eli]

Voting for Powers/Oldfield

Yes - 2 (Oldfield, Franchise)
No - 2 (Fosters, Pancho)

Voting phase deadline is 10am EST tomorrow. 5 votes are needed for a majority.

[GM Mike Powers]

Vote Yes to my own government, obviously

[GM Pancho]

Franchise you played a crap game in the last one and are being a gobshite this game to make up for it.

I'm voting no because Powers said himself he made a mistake with nominating Oldfield. Therefore I'd rather vote no in this government and see who Oldfield picks as his chancellor.

That doesn't me he didn't choose a liberal. You're just making excuses to vote no because you're likely a fascist and are trying to cast doubt on Powers.

Franchise you played a crap game in the last one and are being a gobshite this game to make up for it.

I'm voting no because Powers said himself he made a mistake with nominating Oldfield. Therefore I'd rather vote no in this government and see who Oldfield picks as his chancellor.

Franchise DID win the last game - but mostly because I played the crap game.

Powers says he made a mistake and didn't check.  I could get that.

But there might be an alternative reason to not want to let Oldfield be the next president.  Powers has not been part of a government that passed a blue policy

As Franchise mentioned Oldfield did pick a blue card when given the option.  So I'd rather have Oldfield as president at that point than Powers.

Vote: No

Why are you skeptical of Powers? Just curious.

I'm not specifically skeptical of Powers - at least no more than any other player not named Gooch since I investigated him. After all, I was asking Powers to pick me as chancellor.

To me this vote is simple. Due to Powers mistake we have to choose do we want Powers as President or do we want Oldfield as President.  To me, you've made convincing arguments as to why Oldfield SHOULD be trusted. That kind of data doesn't exist for Powers - yet. So I'd rather Oldfield be President since he won't be able to if the government passes.

Don't know why I didn't think of this before - Oldfield what would you rather be Chancellor or President?  I know you voted for the government so my inclination is that your ok being chancellor but given the choice what would you prefer?

[GM Franchise]

The main reason I'm trusting Powers is because he picked Oldfield. If he was full of crap he wouldn't have picked him in my opinion so I voted yes accordingly.

[GM Kirk]

If you trust Oldfield, why wouldn't you want him in two governments? The question of which he'd rather be is silly when he can be both.

[GM Dougie]

Sorry I've been lingering. Shit day.

I'll make sure to vote before the deadline if needed.

[GM Franchise]

If you trust Oldfield, why wouldn't you want him in two governments? The question of which he'd rather be is silly when he can be both.

Planting the seeds of doubt is a fascist move about Oldfield. Literally the only reason for that to be happening is by a non-liberal. They'll probably go after me next but I don't care. Fascists are three of Pancho, Doug, Gooch, and Fosters if I'm correct about Powers being a liberal. Just a matter of figuring out which three it is and this voting period has been very telling about player alignment from what I'm seeing so far.

[GM Dougie]

Wow thanks.

Anyway... I think the deck probability supports the liberals so if we see red it tells us something.

Vote: Yes

[GM Kirk]

Vote: yes

[GM Josh]

Vote: Yes

Sorry been preoccupied last few days. 

[GM Eli]

We are in policy phase.  No talking please.

[GM Eli]

The government has met and have enacted a...

Fascist Policy

As this was the second red policy played, the Investigate Loyalty presidential power was activated and has been completed.

Talking may resume. Oldfield is the next president. Powers is ineligible to become chancellor.

[GM Pancho]

Please tell me I was investigated ...

[GM Franchise]

Interesting. So what cards did y'all get?

[GM Fosters]

Interesting indeed! Finger of suspicion to those who pushed so hard for this government!

[GM Oldfield]

Had a feeling this was gonna happen. Got two reds.

Someone's lying about their previous cards.

[GM Mike Powers]

I investigated Pancho and he is a liberal. So that means, by extension, Gooch is a liberal.

I received 3 reds, passed 2 on to Oldfield. Based on Doug's math, getting 3 reds was highly unlikely, so someone was lying about what cards they got earlier in the game.

[GM Franchise]

Interesting indeed! Finger of suspicion to those who pushed so hard for this government!

And at those who made a clear point to avoid it likely to keep their "liberal cred"...

Had a feeling this was gonna happen. Got two reds.

Someone's lying about their previous cards.

Of course they are. There has to have been at least one fascist as president already.

[GM Franchise]

Franchise going to end up with the right idea when it's 3-2 later on and people start seeing why I'm saying all of this early in the game.

Hate to say I told you so but...

[GM Franchise]

I investigated Pancho and he is a liberal. So that means, by extension, Gooch is a liberal.

I received 3 reds, passed 2 on to Oldfield. Based on Doug's math, getting 3 reds was highly unlikely, so someone was lying about what cards they got earlier in the game.

Going by this it's either Josh, Pancho, Kirk, or myself which narrows it down to who did it.

[GM Dougie]

So Franchise essentially you're finger pointing everyone in the game...got it.

---

Here is one way to look at this going forward. The two red policies were played by Pancho/Gooch and Powers/Oldfield. To think those are the 4 combined fascists/hitler in total is likely foolish as its easy for a president to control what the chancellor is forced to have with a good draw. A future government should have Gooch or Oldfield as chancellor again to test that.

The only chancellor I want to see in the next government for sure is Josh and I'm not sure Oldfield should be president for that based on above comments. We don't know for sure if Powers really did get 3 reds and someone lied earlier or if he threw a blue out. So I'm weighing that it might be a better decision to just vote no on who he nominates...which again isn't an indictment but its a consequence of what just transpired.

[GM Franchise]

Franchise, the theory is that Doug wouldn't be in a position to hurt us again until much later down the line. That doesn't usually hold true as the first government often passes blue and they both return to power pretty quickly. I'd go with Gooch or Fosters, though. Doug is the secret Hitler expert, so I'd rather hold off on him having power until we see how he plays.

I disagree. No one knows anyone's alignment right now and I'm not trusting anyone even this early in the game. Passing a blue could always be used as a cover for further manipulation down the line so I'm not going by that either.

I didn't play last game, so that means nothing to me. I think someone at the end of the table, who won't be chancellor for a while, should be president over someone who will have power soon. At least for the first go round. Obviously, once we have information to go on - policies enacted, claimed discards, etc - that will inform our decisions.

People lie about their information all the time so I'm not going by what people are saying. The cards will always be different than what information is out there so I'm not going by that either. As for President someone in the middle since going for someone at the end of the table is the popular route and I don't think it's a good move to do. Middle would be better just in case there's a fascist or two near the end of the table which is a possibility.

Doug, I'm doing exactly what I said early in the game and that's not trust anybody. My radar is off on everyone but Oldfield at this point. Pancho and Gooch are clear in my mind going by the investigation so I'll only be voting Yes go governments those three players are in until we figure out who was full of shit with their cards from earlier.

[GM Oldfield]

Gooch is after fosters, so gonna nominate Pancho

[GM Pancho]

Okay I feel like a real idiot now arguing what I did last government - why was I convinced that if Oldfield was Chancellor he could not be president ...  :o

If you trust Oldfield, why wouldn't you want him in two governments? The question of which he'd rather be is silly when he can be both.

Kirk was 100% right about this. 

So Franchise essentially you're finger pointing everyone in the game...got it.

---

Here is one way to look at this going forward. The two red policies were played by Pancho/Gooch and Powers/Oldfield. To think those are the 4 combined fascists/hitler in total is likely foolish as its easy for a president to control what the chancellor is forced to have with a good draw. A future government should have Gooch or Oldfield as chancellor again to test that.

The only chancellor I want to see in the next government for sure is Josh and I'm not sure Oldfield should be president for that based on above comments. We don't know for sure if Powers really did get 3 reds and someone lied earlier or if he threw a blue out. So I'm weighing that it might be a better decision to just vote no on who he nominates...which again isn't an indictment but its a consequence of what just transpired.

I kind of agree with Douglas here and while Oldfield nominated myself - I have to think about this.  Part of me wants to give Oldfield the benefit of the doubt as Powers said he passed two red to him - same thing I did to Gooch. So his liberal/fascist has not been tested. At the same time while Powers said he investigated me and came up liberal - that does squaddush for the rest of you since you don't know Powers allignment.

If this government can enact a blue policy that gives more weight to three people [Gooch, Myself, Powers] being liberal/possibly 4 with Oldfield and going forward if we stick to those people since we are at three different spots in the rotation - we just cruise to a blue victory. 

Passing a Fascist Policy aside being bad for the game - that would also give Oldfield the power of the Special Election and despite what you feel about me, my alignment, and my arguments - do we trust Oldfield to essentially pick the next president?

[GM Oldfield]

It's a shame my previous earlier play has been overshadowed by a deck draw out of my control.

[GM Dougie]

I have more I want to elaborate on when I'm at my computer. Until then I want to ask this question specifically to Oldfield and it will affect my vote.

In the hypothetical that a red gets played here (which it really fucking shouldn't and I'll touch on that later), you would get to pick the next president as it would be at the special election ability. Who would you pick?

[GM Oldfield]

God I hadn't even thought about that. Given the information we've got so far id prob say Gooch or Pancho. I'd hope they'd be the pair in some capacity. I can't think of anyone else I trust to be honest.

[GM Eli]

Voting for Oldfield/Pancho has begun

Deadline for voting will be tomorrow at 6pm eastern. 5 votes are required for a majority.

[GM Franchise]

Vote: Yes

I see no reason to vote against either of them at this point.

[GM Oldfield]

Vote yes

[GM Dougie]

Here is my promised deck elaboration:

It's a foregone conclusion that the majority of folk here believe that SOMEONE lied so far about the cards. Which is a good one to have. You'd be hard pressed to play any game where someone didn't lie yet especially with 2 reds on the board. Now...in the fairly unbelievable circumstance that EVERYONE was telling the truth, it would mean that a this draw has a 90% chance of 2 blues and a 10% chance of 3 blues. We're on the last 2 cards of the original shuffle and 1 of the 10 discards.

Ignoring that...I'm going to operate on the assumption that one government lied and a blue was discarded earlier than suggested. So in MY MIND, that still guarantees a blue on this draw. That would make it 8 reds and 2 blues in the discards so 20% chance of 2 blues and a red and 80% chance of 1 blue and 2 reds.

In other words...for this government to pass a red it would absolutely out SOMEONE as fascist. Its why I didn't want certain candidates as chancellor here because its EXPECTED in my mind for a blue to come out of this. Someone like Josh as chancellor here would have almost certainly guaranteed that Oldfield is fascist if a red got played. Fascists can only pretend to be blue for so long in this game. Cards have to come. Believing Pancho is liberal only works if you trust Powers. Just like Pancho's investigation earlier.

I am still undecided on my vote. For now I am still leaning no. Saying its possible he'd nominate Pancho or Gooch to be president if a red got played AFTER already picking Pancho as his chancellor just doesn't sit well with me.

[GM Mike Powers]

I trusted Oldfield enough to make him my President. I've investigated Pancho, so I KNOW he is town. The only easier vote would be a Gooch/Pancho ticket.

Vote yes

[GM Josh]

After how the last one went down, I don't trust oldfield or powers

vote: No

[GM Franchise]

After how the last one went down, I don't trust oldfield or powers

vote: No

Are there any players that you do trust?

[GM Eli]

Voting for Oldfield/Pancho

Yes - 3 (Franchise, Oldfield, Powers)
No - 1 (Josh)

Deadline for voting will be today at 6pm eastern. 5 votes are required for a majority.

[GM Kirk]

Vote: No

I don't trust Pancho at all. Why make a list of a handful of players (most of whom have passed a red policy) without Josh on it, who has passed 2 blue policies?

[GM Franchise]

Vote: No

I don't trust Pancho at all. Why make a list of a handful of players (most of whom have passed a red policy) without Josh on it, who has passed 2 blue policies?

Excellent point

Unvote
Vote: No

After looking over everything I'm going back into voting no to every government stance. No one is trustworthy at this point. No point in voting for anyone if I don't trust anyone except maybe Oldfield because of him picking the blue card earlier. Other than that there's definitely two sides forming up in the game right now from what I'm seeing. It's just a matter of seeing which one isn't bullshitting.

[GM Pancho]

Vote: No

I don't trust Pancho at all. Why make a list of a handful of players (most of whom have passed a red policy) without Josh on it, who has passed 2 blue policies?

I think Kirk you meant to say Oldfield and not me.

Vote: No

I don't trust Pancho at all. Why make a list of a handful of players (most of whom have passed a red policy) without Josh on it, who has passed 2 blue policies?

Excellent point

Unvote
Vote: No

After looking over everything I'm going back into voting no to every government stance. No one is trustworthy at this point. No point in voting for anyone if I don't trust anyone except maybe Oldfield because of him picking the blue card earlier. Other than that there's definitely two sides forming up in the game right now from what I'm seeing. It's just a matter of seeing which one isn't bullshitting.

Can you name who is on whose side?

Vote: Yes

I see no reason to vote against either of them at this point.

Now that you are voting No ... and you said you had no reason before - what is the reason now?

Honestly, this just strikes me as Franchise play from the previous game in which he was a Fascist and Hitler.

[GM Dougie]

Vote: Yes

I've gone back and forth on this. If a red comes out, it may confirm 2 fascists in Pancho and Powers who says he's liberal.

Furthermore, despite me not being a fan of Oldfield's choice of president IF a red came, I can always vote no to that.

IF he claims there are 3 reds in this draw, then 2 people lied already. Guaranteed.

So there's really a lot to learn from how this government goes down and that's why I've ultimately flip flopped my decision. It took me a long time to come to it I know.

[GM Eli]

Voting for Oldfield/Pancho

Yes - 3 (Oldfield, Powers, Doug)
No - 3 (Josh, Kirk, Franchise)

Deadline for voting will be today at 6pm eastern. 5 votes are required for a majority.

[GM Gooch]

Vote: Yes

[GM Pancho]

Vote: Yes

[GM Eli]

We are now in policy phase. No talking please.

[GM Eli]

The government has met and have enacted a...

Liberal Policy

Talking may resume. Fosters is the next president. Oldfield and Pancho are ineligible to become chancellor.

[GM Franchise]

Okay, so definitely leaning toward Pancho being a liberal after this especially with the liberal policy being passed. Definitely need to look over everything again but it's highly likely that Oldfield and Pancho plus anyone cleared by Pancho is a liberal going by what just happened. I'll admit it, I was wrong about Pancho in this instance.

[GM Pancho]

I was given the choice between red and blue and played a blue.

[GM Pancho]

Okay, so definitely leaning toward Pancho being a liberal after this especially with the liberal policy being passed. Definitely need to look over everything again but it's highly likely that Oldfield and Pancho plus anyone cleared by Pancho is a liberal going by what just happened. I'll admit it, I was wrong about Pancho in this instance.

I would like answers to my previous post Because at this point I would not support any government with Franchise in it based on his play so far - but pending response to my previous post.

[GM Franchise]

Okay, so definitely leaning toward Pancho being a liberal after this especially with the liberal policy being passed. Definitely need to look over everything again but it's highly likely that Oldfield and Pancho plus anyone cleared by Pancho is a liberal going by what just happened. I'll admit it, I was wrong about Pancho in this instance.

I would like answers to my previous post Because at this point I would not support any government with Franchise in it based on his play so far - but pending response to my previous post.

I was replying to it when you and Gooch jumped on with this quick yes votes.

First side is you and Gooch, second one is Kirk and Josh. Middle people are myself, Doug, and Oldfield. The rest are wildcards.

My reason for the no vote is there's two clear sides forming and one of them is fascist driven. Until it gets figured out which side it is voting no is the only logical conclusion.

You do have the right idea about my play from the last game. The only problem with that is I'm not the one doing it. I'm not a fascist in this game so it can't be me.

[GM Fosters]

It seems that Gooch is the best choice with Oldfield and Pancho not being elligble.

I nominate Gooch as chancellor.